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Breeding

Why Is My Goat So Skinny

November 23, 2024 by Leigh Leave a Comment

When you have been raised around dogs and cats, you know when they are a little….chunky and you know when they are too skinny. But what happens when you are new to goats and have absolutely no idea what a goat should look like? Are you asking yourself why is my goat so skinny? Let’s talk about how to judge the body condition of a goat.

Before we get too far into this, I have a great course on the basics of goat care. I call it Goat Crash Course: Goat 101. In this course, I explain things like types of shelter, types of feeds and hays, basic assessments and so much more! Check it out!

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Why Is My Goat So Skinny?

If you are new to the world of livestock, this is a very common question. If you have never had a ruminant, you will ask yourself this question 9283947239487239 times in the first year. The biggest thing you have to remember is that the body condition of cows, sheep and goats are totally different than a dog or cat. And if you’re anything like my family, the way we show our animals love is to feed them….a lot.

Champion

When we first got Champ, we noticed that she seemed a little skinny. Nothing terrible, but we didn’t know a whole lot about goats. From September through November, we realized that her body condition wasn’t fantastic, but she was eating and happy. Then in December through February, we got really excited because she was starting to get pretty chunky. We were over the moon because she was so thin when we went into winter, we were worried she may not have enough fat stores. Come March, we realized we had a really big problem.

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She Wasn’t Chunky, She Was Pregnant

As someone who takes pride in my knowledge of animals, it was absolutely shocking when we figured out that she wasn’t chunky, she was pregnant. All that weight we thought she was gaining, turned out to be babies. When the babies dropped, we discovered that she was skin and bones. I felt terrible. We were told via the Vet and ultrasound, that she wasn’t pregnant. So we didn’t increase her feed. She had access to quality hay and occasionally grain, but nothing else. My poor girl had almost zero fat stores.

You can see her spine, the hollow between her rib and hips. Her body condition was about a 1.5-2.0

I recently uploaded this podcast about her death.

While I am incredibly grateful that she pulled through, it was really close. I refuse to allow any animal of mine to suffer due to my lack of education. We had already lost enough animals to that. I started devouring all the information on grain, pelleted grasses, hays, and other feeds that I could get my hands on. But one thing that “eluded” me was how to tell if your goat is fat or skinny.

Livestock Are Not Like Pets

Chances are, you have had a dog or a cat. When they are skinny, you can tell pretty easily. Same thing if they are carrying a little extra weight. And it’s almost always seen in their waist first. With livestock, specifically ruminants, that is not the case.

goat kidding

Before we get too far into this, I have a great course on the basics of goat care. I call it Goat Crash Course: Goat 101. In this course, I explain things like types of shelter, types of feeds and hays, basic assessments and so much more! Check it out!

Buy Now

Because of how a ruminants abdomen is set up, they don’t necessarily have a true waist like a dog. So to use that as a determining factor isn’t really going to work. Instead, you need to FEEL their “fat pads”. What that means is that you cannot correctly and adequately judge the body condition of a goat based solely on the way they look.

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If you heard someone say “That animal has a little too much condition” and you were totally confused what they meant? They are saying that animal has too much fat. Sorry.

So What Is Body Condition Of A Goat

Body condition is simply the fat covering the body of an animal. The reason that this is so important is because it gives the farmer the ability to judge how much energy/fat reserves the animal has. The good thing is that there is a scale that you can use to figure out what body condition your animal has, and what you can do about it.

Areas To Check

There are three areas that you want feel on your goat. It’s important to remember that you are not trying to feel the bone, instead you are gently pressing to feel the layer of fat between the bone and the skin. It can take some practice. When going through the scale below, remember that pressure is minimal. If you are using a lot of pressure, you will not feel the fat layer. You will only feel the bone. If you think your goat is a 5.0, you are still not cramming down on the bony areas you are feeling. It’s still small amounts of pressure because what you are trying to feeling for that fat pad.

  1. Spine- You should feel the bony ridge on either side of the spine (technically it’s all the spine)
  2. Ribs- You should feel the space in between the ribs
  3. Sternum- You should feel the plate between the front legs on the chest

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The Body Condition Scale

The biggest thing to remember is that this scale is a management tool just like the FAMACHA score cards. It is not an end all be all. Nor can you simply say, she’s skinny and needs more groceries. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work like that, and I explain more below.

The scale starts at 1.0 and goes to 5.0 and goes up in .5 increments. Where do you want your goat to live on the scale? We like our goats between 3.0 to 4.0. But depending on the circumstances we are okay with a 2.5.

Our herd health bundle helps you keep track of your herd’s health. Includes the goat assessment, herd check sheets AND Herd Health Tracker!

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What Is The Scale?

Photo from Link (1.0)

1.0– Goat is going to be absolutely no fat on ANY of the three areas you check. You can see and feel the individual bones of the spine, spaces between ribs, and chest plate. These goats are extremely sick and unless turned around quickly, are probably going to die. Common causes is going to be poor husbandry, malnutrition, parasites and possibly diseases.

2.0-This goat has little to no fat along the spine. You can see ribs and there is some fat between the ribs but not a lot. Like a 1.0, there is a noticeable hollow between the hip bones and ribs.

3.0– Goats at a 3.0 should have a visible ridge on their spine but when it’s touched, there should be little give with the fat. You should be able to barely feel the ribs and should not be able to feel in between the ribs without some pressure. The chest plate should be padded.

Pic from Link (4.0)

4.0– This goat should be a chunk. You should not be able to see the top ridge of the spine and when you feel it, should not be able to feel without a fair amount of pressure. There should be no discernable difference in the ribs without considerable pressure. The fat on the chest plate should move.

5.0– This is a super chunk. This goat needs LESS groceries, despite what it tells you. There is absolutely no way to visibly decern the spine, ribs or chest plate. When you feel, you will not feel bones without A LOT of pressure.

What To Do With The Information From The Scale

I know, it’s a lot to unpack, but stick with me here. Above I said that the body condition score and the FAMACHA score are management tools, right? Ok, this is why it’s a management tool.

If you have a goat that is a 1.0-2.0, they are pretty thin and need to be evaluated for parasites, disease, pregnancy and husbandry. Remember, I screwed up husbandry, too, so don’t get upset here. But we need to figure out why. If the fecal is clear and you or your vet can’t find a reason for the goat to be skinny, give it some more food. Start small and go from there. If the fecal isn’t clear, start a worming protocol that you find effective. Don’t have a worming protocol? Talk to a vet. If you don’t have a Caprine vet, get on Facebook and go to Goat Emergency Team or Successful Goating With Rosie. I swear those two groups have saved my goats more often than I care to admit.

If you have a 3.0-4.0, keep doing what you’re doing but monitor closely for changes. Do they gain weight? Back off the feed. If they lose weight, get a fecal and up the feed.

5.0? Back off the groceries but also check for pregnancy for does. Bucks are almost always a feed issue, but could be something else.

But if you have a goat that has clear fecals, good FAMACHA, no illness, no pregnancy, but you can’t get it to gain weight? You may just have a thin goat. Monitor this goat closely for rapid declines. Champ is a thin goat. We can get her to a 3.0 and she will slide back to a 2.0-2.5 for no reason. Her fecals are clear, FAMACHA is good, and vet clears her health wise. We just roll with it and keep an eye on her. Not that she would let us ignore her. EVER.

My Favorite Girl

Why Is My Goat So Skinny?

There are a lot of reasons for your goat to be skinny. My first question is always, is she really skinny? If you are brand new to goats, you may think she’s skinny and she’s perfectly fine. Use the chart above to figure out if she’s skinny or just right.

Our herd health bundle helps you keep track of your herd’s health. Includes the goat assessment, herd check sheets AND Herd Health Tracker!

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Another reason your goat may be skinny is a high parasite load. Most vets can run a fecal for around $25, depending on your area. Or you can reach out to an independent lab. Meadow Mist is a great one. Last I heard, they do their fecals for $6 each. If they have a high parasite load, treat and then revaluate.

Lastly, she could be pregnant or sick. If you can, have her evaluated by a vet to rule out any possible illnesses. If she was possibly bred, have a pregnancy test done. She may not be getting enough to sustain her and the babies.

I hope this helps you figure out what to do in terms of management with your goats. Goats try to un-alive themselves constantly. So staying on top of their care is really important.

Don’t forget to check out the crash course below

Before we get too far into this, I have a great course on the basics of goat care. I call it Goat Crash Course: Goat 101. In this course, I explain things like types of shelter, types of feeds and hays, basic assessments and so much more! Check it out!

Buy Now

If you like the content I put out, feel free to buy us a coffee! It helps keep this site running, marketing and the goats in grain!

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Why You Need The Herd Health Sheets

October 8, 2024 by Leigh Leave a Comment

I posted before about how goats are not beginner livestock. I’ve also posted about the basics you need to care for your goats. But how do you keep track of all of the things that you’ve done, need to do, or want to do? I have tried many different ways of trying to keep track of who has gotten what meds, who was breed by who, and who needs vaccines or boosters. But my herd health sheets have been fantastic over the last several years and I wanted to share them with you.

goat kidding

Before we get too far into this, I have a great course on the basics of goat care. I call it Goat Crash Course: Goat 101. In this course, I explain things like types of shelter, types of feeds and hays, basic assessments and so much more! Check it out!

Buy Now

Why You Need Herd Health Sheets

Unlike other livestock, goats can be pretty fragile creatures that require constant care and maintenance. If you don’t know who is who, or maybe forget that you dewormed your milk goat, you can have some pretty serious problems. If you are using your memory to remember who got what and when, you will have problems at some point.

Here Are Some Reasons To Use Herd Health Sheets

If you are breeding your goats for milk, you need to know who bred them around what time. Then you need to know if they have had any issues with milking in the past, how often they have had to be dewormed, how many kids they throw, and if they have any contagious diseases.

Another reason to help keep track is breeding. We decided to keep Champ’s kid Stella. We CAN breed Stella back to her father but that’s not an awesome idea. Also, by knowing that Champ hates being milked, we know that we need to work with Stella a lot on the milking stand.

goat kid in the house with black dog sniffing it

We also had an issue with Orf’s within the first few months of having Bella, Champ, Midas and Texas. So by keeping track of who had it, it helps keep us updated on who is likely to get it.

Obviously, if you only have two goats, you can probably remember these things. But we have more than two and will definitely have even more. Not to mention that we plan on breeding goats for a long time. It would be nice to be able to go back at a glance and see who has been healthy and who hasn’t. I am working towards breeding healthier genetics with less need for worming

Who Needs Herd Sheets

If you have livestock that you need to do treatments to or have on a breeding schedule, I would say that you need these herd sheets. Sure, if you only have one bull, buck, rooster, whatever, you probably don’t need the breeding part for them. But I’ve got two bucks and I do need to be careful about who gets bred to who. Midas can breed everyone but Stella. Spike can breed anyone this year. But I want to wait until the girls are at least eight months old.

While I can go down the rabbit hole of all the technicalities of this, I think it’s safe to say that it’s better to have all this information in one spot. If I’m having to flip pages or do mental gymnastics, someone could get left out and that is dangerous when dealing with creatures that are not so great at keeping themselves alive.

Sheets In Use

The first video is Champ’s sheet and the second is the actual product and how to use it.

Its important to note, on Champ’s sheet, that before I created these sheets, I totally missed documenting fecals and other medications that were given. That can be life threatening when dealing with worms. Here in the south, worms are lethal. Sure, you can have a strong herd that rarely needs deworming. But we aren’t there yet. You can see at the bottom, that the last entry she was dewormed because the strongyles came back with a vengeance. Not to mention that her FAMACHA was a 4.

This sheet also helps keep me aware of weight loss, FAMACHA trends, and so on.

This is a brand new sheet and how to set it up.

Where To Get These Sheets?

You can find them on our store as a digital download. The PDF is for the Google Sheet link and they are super easy to fill out. The best thing to do is to make a copy of the first page, by right clicking and then click duplicate. Then rename the copy to your goat name. After that you can remove the information on there and replace it with your own.

I hope this sheet will help you as they have helped me. I strongly suggest either creating your own or picking up ours.

If you like the content I put out, feel free to buy us a coffee! It helps keep this site running, marketing and the goats in grain!

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Breeding Goats Without A Buck

June 29, 2024 by Leigh Leave a Comment

I’m sure you’ve heard the horror stories of keeping a buck on the property with your does. You’ve probably heard that they stink to high heaven. Or that they will breed through fences… or say what fence. I’ve kept bucks since the beginning of our goating journey and while I don’t mind them, I can totally understand why people wouldn’t want to keep a buck. But if you are looking to breed for milk or meat or for whatever reason you decide, how do you go about breeding goats without a buck?

goat kidding

Before we get too far into this, I have a great course on the basics of goat care. I call it Goat Crash Course: Goat 101. In this course, I explain things like types of shelter, types of feeds and hays, basic assessments and so much more! Check it out!

Buy Now

Breeding Goats Without A Buck

First and foremost, breeding goats without a buck will not happen. You absolutely can’t do it. Basic biology says that you have to have sperm and an egg to make a fetus. BUT if you are not wanting to house bucks on your property long term, you do have some options. The 3 big ones are driveway breeding, seasonal bucks, or stud rentals….

Before we get into those ways of breeding without a buck, first I want to touch on why some people may not want a buck full time. I’ll tell you our experience with keep bucks full time so you can get a more rounded picture.

Why Not Keep A Buck Full Time

There are a lot of reasons not to keep a buck on your property full time. The first would be feeding. Bucks can consume a TON of food. And considering that for most farms or homesteads, they only have one purpose, to breed. So keeping around a buck that is going to eat a lot but only reproduce? That’s a tall order.

Another reason people don’t want to keep bucks is because they stink. Now, they only really stink during rut, but rut can last a long time. Rut is when bucks will fight other males, pee on their faces, and be a general nuisance.

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Fence jumping or fence breeding is another big concern with keeping bucks full time. We have had several very stubborn does that were going to get their man when they came in heat. Short of tethering those does, they were going to get bred through the fence. However, it was not uncommon for the bucks to jump fences to get to the girls.

Now that we’ve covered why not to have bucks, let’s talk about ways to breed without keeping a buck full time.

Our herd health bundle helps you keep track of your herd’s health. Includes the goat assessment, herd check sheets AND Herd Health Tracker!

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Driveway Breeding

This option is exactly what it sounds like. You contact someone like me, who offers stud services, and tell them that you would like to use their buck to your does. This can be done in one of two ways. You bring your girls to the stud and let them do their thing in the driveway. Or they come to your does. Either way, the goal is the same, the hook up happens in the driveway.

There are some drawbacks to this option. The first is that if you missed your does heat cycle, you waste everyone’s time and stress the goats. The second is that if it doesn’t take, you have to do it again. Finally, trying to line up schedules to make sure that the goats get together at the right time can be a pain.

However, there are some pros to this style of stud service. Things like having full control over when babies are born, exactly what genetics you are adding to your herd, and not having the added expense and chores of a separated buck.

Before we get too far into this, I have a great course on the basics of goat care. I call it Goat Crash Course: Goat 101. In this course, I explain things like types of shelter, types of feeds and hays, basic assessments and so much more! Check it out!

Buy Now

Seasonal Bucks

Another great option, and the one most similar to what we use, is seasonal bucks. This is when you purchase a buck for the season and then either sell him at the end of your season or send him to freezer camp. I like this option the best because you don’t have to worry about trying to keep someone else’s buck alive for the season. This is your buck, not someone else’s.

Another reason why this is a good option is because you don’t have to keep a buddy for him. Remember, I told you here that goats are herd animals. That means that if you keep a buck full time and don’t keep your herd together at all times, you will have to have a wether for your buck to keep him company. But if you buy a buck in September for breeding spring and fall babies, and butcher in November, you don’t have to keep a wether.

The downside to this is the expense of purchasing a buck every year and then figuring out what to do with them afterwards. Especially, if you aren’t interested in sending it to freezer camp. I’ll tell you right now, it is extremely hard to sell bucks.

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Stud Rentals

This is something that we have done a few times with our bucks with mix results. Basically, you would contact your local goat or livestock group and ask if anyone rents out their bucks. You would select your buck, set terms like amount of time the buck will be at your homestead, any testing you would like done or have results for, and how much your willing to pay.

It’s not uncommon for stud rentals to be about $100/mo depending on what you are looking for. A show quality buck with all biosecurity testing could be upwards of $500/mo depending on your area. A registered buck could be a couple hundred. It really depends. Also, there is usually a contract of some sort that says if you break it, you buy it. Which is totally fair.

I think this could be the most bang for your buck if you know that you can’t send the buck to the freezer at the end of the season.

goat kidding

Before we get too far into this, I have a great course on the basics of goat care. I call it Goat Crash Course: Goat 101. In this course, I explain things like types of shelter, types of feeds and hays, basic assessments and so much more! Check it out!

Buy Now

Our Experience With Keeping Bucks

We have kept bucks full time from day one. I didn’t want the added expense and headache of trying to find stud services and constantly switch out bucks. There are some things of note that we have found work well for us.

We leap frog our bucks, getting a new one every year and sending the 2 or 3 year old buck to the freezer. Midas will be going to the butcher in November (2024) because he has fathered too many of our retained does. Maverick is our next herd sire, he will be allowed to hang with Midas and learn the ropes before it’s “his turn”. Then during kidding season (Early 2025), we will pick another buckling to be the following year’s herd sire. Maverick will have until November 2026 before he goes to freezer camp.

Our herd health bundle helps you keep track of your herd’s health. Includes the goat assessment, herd check sheets AND Herd Health Tracker!

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Letting Bucks Be Bucks

Another thing we have found is that when we allow a buck to stay with his girls, he isn’t solely focused on breeding. In fact, he becomes a herd protector and has ran off coyotes and other predators. Is it full proof? No. But allowing animals to follow their natural instincts is amazing to watch.

We have found that if we keep our bucks separate from the girls, they are far stinky-er than if just leave them with the girls. So we will let the buck stay with his group of girls 24/7 and he doesn’t need to compete with the other bucks. However, they will absolutely pee all over themselves and get rowdy. But it’s not nearly as bad as when we have separated them.

I enjoy having the ease of keeping bucks on the farm. We will always have bucks here, especially because they will keep the girls in check and protected. That’s a win in my book.

If you like the content I put out, feel free to buy us a coffee! It helps keep this site running, marketing and the goats in grain!

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Meet The New Goats

June 1, 2024 by Leigh Leave a Comment

I’m here to tell you, goats are addicting. What started as “long term lawn mowers” has turned into so much more. Goats are seriously the most entertaining critter on our homestead. They jump, play, and get into trouble. While they are not beginner livestock, they are totally worth it. On Sunday we brought 3 more new goats to the homestead.

goat kidding

Before we get too far into this, I have a great course on the basics of goat care. I call it Goat Crash Course: Goat 101. In this course, I explain things like types of shelter, types of feeds and hays, basic assessments and so much more! Check it out!

Buy Now

Bringing New Goats To The Homestead

Bringing new goats the homestead can be a stressful event. It’s not just getting them and bringing them home that can be an undertaking. In fact, getting them loaded up and to the homestead is sometimes the easiest part. Bonding with them, quarantine, and learning them is up there with the hardest parts.

The New Goats

We are slowly but surely working our way into the dairy goat business. In the mean time, we are building our herd with genetics that will make us successful. Crooked Oak Farm of SC hooked us up with two gorgeous doelings and a BIG buck.

Of course within 24 hours of them being on the homestead, they ended up ingesting mountain laurel and we had to bring them into the living room to nurse them through it. I swear, if it’s not one thing it’s another with these animals. But we got them through it and they are in their respective pens.

Spike is our new buck. We decided that we wanted to have the ability to retain doelings that caught our fancy. The problem is that I can’t breed the doe back to her father. I mean I could, but the chances of there being problems is high and I don’t want that.

Jade and Sapphire are our 8 week old, blue eyed doelings. They are adorable and full of piss and vinegar which I love. The first night we had them, they screamed the entire night because they wanted their momma back. The second night they were in my living room fighting off toxemia. The third night they were back to screaming their heads off. My poor neighbors must hate us.

The best part of the last four days is that Champ had her baby! So I ran a pool for how many she would have. I got guesses all over as well as different dates. Since she decided it kid a full week after her due date, the dates didn’t matter. But I guessed that she would have three babies and she did! Unfortunately, only one of them lived. We are not 100% the cause but we have our suspicions. But Stella was born and started screaming at me within about 10 seconds.

Champ is seriously the best momma. I was concerned at first because Champ didn’t seem to want anything to do with Stella, but over the last several days she has really become an awesome momma. Stella has blue eyes like her momma and I am absolutely thrilled to have her.

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We are still on baby watch for Bella but she isn’t showing any signs of having those babies so I guess we’ll see what she does over the next week or so. We also think that Bailey and Oakley may be pregnant which would be awesome since they are just now big enough that I’m not super worried about the kidding.

So that brings our count to nine goats…. I think.

Update: Bella had her baby

Bella gave us a cute little buckling that we named BeBe (Bella’s Baby). He was retained for meat. Over the last couple years since the original post, she has given us a total of 4 gorgeous babies that all look exactly like her… Except Maverick, he doesn’t look much like her but he’s equally adorable.

Stella is doing amazing and has grown into a really beautiful goat and good mama too. She gave us two doelings that were absolutely adorable! Unfortunately, the were born in June and didn’t make it through our summer and parasite loads, despite throwing everything we had at them.

Bringing New Goats To The Homestead

This year, 2024, we had plans to bring new meat goats to the homestead. But we decided to switch gears and work on our pastures instead. That means that we are potentially holding off on new goats until our pastures are better equipped to handle them.

My hope is that by the end of 2024, we will have a flourishing herd of hardy, milk and meat goats.

If you like the content I put out, feel free to buy us a coffee! It helps keep this site running, marketing and the goats in grain!

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FAQ

July 24, 2022 by Leigh Leave a Comment

Below are the most frequently asked questions that we get. We will add more as people ask more questions.

Why Mini Nubians?– The short answer is: we wanted a smaller goat that would produce great milk. The rest is much longer but here are the high points. We like the way they look, their personalities, and the ears. But for us it was more about the milk

Why do you breed?– Well, we want the milk. In order to get the milk, we need to breed them. We also only breed for what we are able to keep. So if we didn’t sell last years babies, we will be very selective on who we breed the following year.

Do you sell the milk?– Unfortunately, no. The stated of Georgia does not allow the sale of unpasteurized (raw) goat milk for human consumption. To be fair, we are not set up for that right now anyways. We are looking to do something with it in the future, but not right now.

How often do you have babies?– Currently, we have two breeding “seasons”. March and July, so babies should be ready around May and September-ish. We are looking to move towards a year round approach but we are not there yet.

Do you require deposits?– Sort of. We require a deposit if you want a wether or horned goat. We do this because if we do either of those two things it is a permanent modification, or lack of. If you back out of the deal, then I am stuck with a wether that could have been a herd sire but now can’t because he is castrated. Or if you want a horned goat and back out, then I am stuck with a goat that is more likely to get stuck in fencing.

Are deposits refundable or transferable?– No and for the same reasons as listed above. If you are on a waitlist or know that you want a doe from a certain breeding and she only gives bucks? You can transfer that deposit to another breeding.

Do you sell bottle babies?– Uh, sort of. We will not sell a baby as a bottle baby unless in certain and extreme situations. We believe that babies should stay with mama unless there is an issue. For example: mama dies or rejects kids. If the baby is bottled due to health concerns, it will not be sold until 100% healthy.

Do you vaccinate?– Every baby will leave this farm with it’s CDT vaccine and a copper bolus on board. They have also been on coccidia preventative since 3 weeks old and get another preventative every 3 weeks until they are about 6 months old. We do not send preventative with the goats at this time due to supply shortages. However, I will send you a link on the type we use. You can also consult your vet about getting some as well.

Other Helpful Tips:

Blog posts from Steel Raven Farms

www.wormx.org

www.facebook.com/goatemergencyteam

www.facebook.com/successfulgoatingwithrosie

Filed Under: Breeding

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